When will people learn?(a rant)

[JayB613]

I know that this topic has been discussed many times already, but I'm really getting fed up with other musicians not taking me seriously as a drummer, just because I play V-drums! Many people seem to have this misconception that e-drums are a toy as opposed to a real musical instrument. I swear if one more person ridicules me for being an e-drummer, they're gonna get a drumstick shoved where the sun doesn't shine!


Okay I feel much better now!

[3Cup Candy]

I haven't run into that myself yet, but it all goes back to what I said and what I agreed with in the other threads this was talked about in.


First of all I'd tell them to use only acoustic instruments like acoustic guitars and standup bass and piano and stuff instead of electric guitars and electric bass and a keyboard. Oh, and no microphones for vocals 'cause only the real voice without a mic is a "real instrument".


Then I'd just plain and simple kick the livin' snot out of 'em!

[evanb]

You tell them!!!!

[Styxson]

Originally Posted by JayB613

I swear if one more person ridicules me for being an e-drummer, they're gonna get a drumstick shoved where the sun doesn't shine!

South Wales?

[stickinthemud]

Try this response:

"Wow, I had no idea you were so narrow-minded."

When they deny it, then say "Well then I suppose you will want to suspend judgement until you have learned a bit more about the instrument I have chosen and what it is capable of."

[Hercules]

Just turn that little volume knob up to 11 - you won't hear them then....

[ToDaMax]

another possible response:
"So when I listen to drums recorded in studio or go to concert, the A-Drums which are miked and mixed are not enhanced/altered in anyway by electronics ?"

and be sure to be smug about it

[hodsmack4]

I dread this whole mentality. I suppose I can understand the ignorance if someone has not fully been exposed to the whole e-drum thing. Of course it all makes perfect sense to us e-drummers, but not sure it will ever change.

Related, and not to take away from your rant.....I may have a huge opportunity this Spring and through Summer, to do some dates with a couple acts - one is pretty huge (or was) in the country music scene. The acts are solo dudes and it's easier on them to not haul a band around, so a couple studio guys from nashville have agree to it, and knowing a key person, it's looking like it could be me , as well. What they are not aware of is I have been strictly a Vdrummer for the last 10 years, hardly touching an acoustic kit (not to mention, no longer even owing one ) I'm assuming the Vdrums would go over about like a fart in church, and I am willing to dump the change to get a 'real' kit and re-learn, but seriously.......is it an absolute must? It's not like my kit is a TD-5. That's so 90's like this whole battle.

Ok - you can have your rant back

[stickinthemud]

Maybe we should take an entirely different tack:

"Don't confuse these with drums. They are not drums. What I have here is a percussion-based sample playback system. Unlike ordinary drums, this system is capable of triggering an unlimited number of sounds, not only the 500+ expertly recorded drum samples within the module, but any audio clip or loop you care to name. They represent the same advance in technology and artistry as the electric guitar and electronic keyboard did when they came out and revolutionized the music industry. Expect the same from Vdrums."

As Max suggested, be smug.

[Sook]

It's a tuff pill to swallow, I had two guys in on the weekend buying a few of my lights, "Ah you have a plastic kit" (both were drummers) "yes" I replied "it's a cool toy that costs me $8000.00" They bought two lights, all good:-). I refuse to educate anymore.

[gingerbaker]

Originally Posted by JayB613

... but I'm really getting fed up with other musicians not taking me seriously as a drummer, just because I play V-drums!...

Part of this attitude by other musicians is just plain ignorance, but I wonder how much of this is our fault too. I know I have been guilty of not bringing enough audio equipment to an audition, and the impression this leaves has got to be indelible. A "fake" drum kit sounding fake as hell.

And a lot, if not most, of folks who buy an e-kit have never played before. So, compound the sound-quality issue with a drummer-quality issue in the minds of other musicians.

You know, maybe these guys are right! At least, based on their experiences. if all one has heard are drummers with weak sounding kits, it makes sense. But imagine if all they had heard was Omar Hakim through a $20,000 P.A., I'll bet their opinion would be different!

It takes a lot of money to afford an amplification system that is going to come close to the on-stage sound that an acoustic kit can provide to other musicians. What is the usual complaint of other musicians about e-drums? Answer: they can't feel the kick. The snare isn't loud enough, etc.

What is the first thing that an e-drummer says when he reports here on using an acoustic kit after a long time away from them? He says something like "Man, I had forgotten how LOUD an acoustic kit is!" What should that be telling us?

Well, I think it tells us that in general we don't bring enough acoustic firepower to the stage. That maybe we should use an actual kick drum on stage and give the musicians what they need.

Personally, I haven't run into a lot of problems, but one time I was on the phone to set up an audition and encountered pushback about the V-drums. The first thing I told the guy was that I had a stage rig that would "tear the top of his head off". It worked.

If we don't bring enough to an audition to make the other musicians turn around, stop playing, and go "Wuh! I didn't think electric drums could sound like that!" and then come over and check out the kit with new eyes maybe it's our own fault we don't get respect as a group.

[audiopat]

Well said Gingerbaker! It is unfortunately a problem that edrummers have to face. I know most keyboard players are arrogant enough to show up for gigs without amps, but if we choose to play a quiet e-kit, you have to make sure it is LOUD after you amplify it because drums are meant to be LOUD. So yeah. What he said.

[3Cup Candy]

Originally Posted by stickinthemud

Maybe we should take an entirely different tack:

"Don't confuse these with drums. They are not drums. What I have here is a percussion-based sample playback system. Unlike ordinary drums, this system is capable of triggering an unlimited number of sounds, not only the 500+ expertly recorded drum samples within the module, but any audio clip or loop you care to name. They represent the same advance in technology and artistry as the electric guitar and electronic keyboard did when they came out and revolutionized the music industry. Expect the same from Vdrums."

As Max suggested, be smug.

Ok so maybe I can suggest both tactics together?

So what I'd do is kick the livin' snot out of 'em. Then tattoo what you said in reverse image on their forehead.


Then I'd hand 'em a mirror.


When they eventually recover their strength enough to be able to lift their arm, they'd eventually be able to lift the mirror. And then when the swelling around their eyes goes down enough, they could look at their face in it and see the more subtle message you gave them on their forehead.


Oh and now I might have explained to you one reason why I haven't played or stood in with a band for a while.

[Kenster]

I particularly liked the "narrow minded" response, love it! I'll be using it, even at work!

Its funny, when I read the comments folks have been putting up with about V Drums not being real drums...I try to make a visual in my mind of the person making said comments, the situation, location, etc etc. Here's some of the scenarios I envision...see if yours are the same!

1. Music store...drum dept....display area....some hack musician standing around in drum dept claiming to be a guitar player (why is he there, then?) looking at V Drum display with one of our forum members on the kit playing around...making comments about them NOT being real drums.....I term this guy "idiot"..knows nothing about music gear outside his own little set up.

2. Same location.....teenagers playing around on V Drums....parents or other uninitiated dolts standing around calling them "toys just like Rock Band"...I deem these folks "still in the 50's" and "great sucker customers".

3. Location is live gig in a club...some ass clown who can't dance comes up to the stage and calls your V Dum kit a nice "toy" and asks where your REAL drums are. Not only can this guy not dance, is NOT getting laid at this gig, he has no clue about music gear. I call this guy "gene pool removal candidate". If he spouts off about being able to play guitar or "used to play drums" then he's a straight up wanna be-wish-he-had-a-real-V Drum-kit.

4. Wannabees and hacks!!! Choose any litany of locations and comments...usually revolve around them "used to play" or "I can play drums too" or "used to play guitar"...etc etc etc. Because they lack the talent, skill and equipment and even the wherewithal to play, they can only make negative comments to you to try and bring you down to their level. This applies to A kits as well...you don't need V Drums to get this kinda commenting....these are true bottom feeders.

5. Divas and prima-donnas...I envision these folks as self proclaimed vocalists and lead guitarists who really aren't that good, or even if they are, still have no clue about drums and equipment, and are the types of folks who are ALWAYS spouting off negative comments or ones that are never complimentary, always critical. Always. No matter what social setting these folks are in, they are never happy or full of praise for anyone except themselves. You will never educate these folks and unfortunately they go thru life making these comments all the damned time because no one wants to confront them and seem rude, or not politically correct, or out of fear of violation of some rules of etiquette. Great folks to use the "narrow minded" comment on. When I encounter these folks I stick it in them, and snap it off...either getting them to concede, shut up, or make them so uncomfortable they'll leave and shut up. These people aren't just A-holes, they're the WHOLE ass.

As I've said before, I haven't had too many bad comments about V Drums, but whether its V Drums or anything in life where someone is downing you...consider the SOURCE...99 times out of 100, the people making the comments DO NOT MATTER...HAVE NO BEARING on your personal happiness, wealth, well being, or future. I always ask "who died and made YOU the Pope of this dump?"

K ;-)

[amaratta]

Originally Posted by gingerbaker

Part of this attitude by other musicians is just plain ignorance, but I wonder how much of this is our fault too. I know I have been guilty of not bringing enough audio equipment to an audition, and the impression this leaves has got to be indelible. A "fake" drum kit sounding fake as hell.

And a lot, if not most, of folks who buy an e-kit have never played before. So, compound the sound-quality issue with a drummer-quality issue in the minds of other musicians.

You know, maybe these guys are right! At least, based on their experiences. if all one has heard are drummers with weak sounding kits, it makes sense. But imagine if all they had heard was Omar Hakim through a $20,000 P.A., I'll bet their opinion would be different!

It takes a lot of money to afford an amplification system that is going to come close to the on-stage sound that an acoustic kit can provide to other musicians. What is the usual complaint of other musicians about e-drums? Answer: they can't feel the kick. The snare isn't loud enough, etc.

What is the first thing that an e-drummer says when he reports here on using an acoustic kit after a long time away from them? He says something like "Man, I had forgotten how LOUD an acoustic kit is!" What should that be telling us?

Well, I think it tells us that in general we don't bring enough acoustic firepower to the stage. That maybe we should use an actual kick drum on stage and give the musicians what they need.

Personally, I haven't run into a lot of problems, but one time I was on the phone to set up an audition and encountered pushback about the V-drums. The first thing I told the guy was that I had a stage rig that would "tear the top of his head off". It worked.

If we don't bring enough to an audition to make the other musicians turn around, stop playing, and go "Wuh! I didn't think electric drums could sound like that!" and then come over and check out the kit with new eyes maybe it's our own fault we don't get respect as a group.

Excellent points. Well put.