Pondering an upgrade....

[BeyondStupidity]

So i got my set finished and I've used up all the inputs. The only way i could expand my set without getting a TMC or another brain is to use the dual zone tom capability. I had planed to put a raper circuit in them and just assign random effects to the rims but my attempts at the Rapers for my cymbals weren't so successful. I finally finished my cymbals using Hellfires dualzone/chokeable switch and now that i'm in love with the idea i kinda want to use that idea to make more triggers off my tom inputs. But I have a few questions before i would launch into it.

The first one would be that i'm pretty sure i heard somewhere that the dynamics of the triggering on a piezo/switch pad is measured by the piezo after the hit on the stitch. If this were true and i create a mount for the switch separate from the piezo(that is in the tom) it wouldn't work.

One solution to this i thought of was to put another piezo (wired the same as the one that would bein the tom) onto my new switch/second trigger contraption so that i could have the switch separate from the tom.

Oh, another idea i just had (if my solution works). I have a TD-10 with 4 toms so if i could make a pad with 4 switches on it, wire them all to one piezo somehow and use that piezo to measure the vibration of them all to create like my own little trigger pad....it would be much more complicated than that but i may mess around with it.....

I dont know if i lost you in all that rambling if so feel free to ask question.
any thoughts? hahaha

[BeyondStupidity]

hahaha just found this
http://vdrums.com/forum/showpost.php...78&postcount=6
what would we all do without hellfire?

That is my idea i'm just not quite clear on how the piezo would work into this. This whole thing depends on the switch dynamics being defined by the piezo....

[BeyondStupidity]

Attached it an idea of what the layout would look like. Anyone see anyway to simplify it?

[Hellfire]

Your idea sounds good. It is not has hard as you might think. The word doc you posted should work. However, have you thought about just adding switches to your tom rims? I have an idea that might suprise you on just how simple this would be. Just give me a little time to make a drawing of it.

[BeyondStupidity]

Thanks Hellfire, I guess i kinda dismissed the idea of rim triggers along with the raper circuit. I'l love to see what you've come up with. Thanks again!

[Hellfire]

Originally Posted by BeyondStupidity

Thanks Hellfire, I guess i kinda dismissed the idea of rim triggers along with the raper circuit. I'l love to see what you've come up with. Thanks again!

Here are a few pictures to show the idea. Keep in mind it is just that, an idea. To keep it simple, we want to use the rim as part of the switch. If your lugs are all metal (which most are) you can run a wire from any of the lug screws inside the tom shell. That would be "contact#1". Using a conduit clamp bent it to the shape as shown in the pictures, and bolt it through the tom shell. From the inside of the tom shell, use the bolt of the conduit for your second wire, this is "contact#2". Now, the way it is shown in the picture the switch would be very small, but if you use two or three clamp and bolt those to an arch shape piece of wood and then put some rubber on it, you are good to go. Now if you have to much isolation between the piezo mount (for you head) and the wall of the shell, it may not work well. Most people use rubber washers on the mounting of their cross bar, you may need to omit those. If that is how you built your drums.

Remember this is just the concept stage and much more can be done to give it a more finished look. One more thing, the space between the clamp and rim needs to be as small as possible. A gap about as thick as a piece of paper. The bigger the gap, the louder the click will be when you hit it. I think this should work. Let me know what you think.

[BeyondStupidity]

Talk about making things simple! wow, wish i'd thought of that

I'll i have to mess around with it, I'm trying to think of a way to "blend" it in with the tom and maybe expand the striking aria.

[Hellfire]

Originally Posted by BeyondStupidity

...maybe expand the striking aria.

I agree with you, that is why I stated this in my post:

Originally Posted by Hellfire

Now, the way it is shown in the picture the switch would be very small, but if you use two or three clamp and bolt those to an arch shape piece of wood and then put some rubber on it, you are good to go.

I don't know if you are like me when I play, but I don't use all of the rim. For instance, on my snare I typically hit the rim between 1 and 3 o'clock. So, if I was to make a rim switch, I would make it to fit that position. That can be done like this:

[cheapthrill]

BS, you have a cool idea, you are thinking outside the box... the project box.

Hellfire, I follow your design, but there is something I'd like to know- is the conduit clamp supposed to complete the circuit when it touches the hoop? If so, then that seems odd to me, I wouldn't think that hoops and conduit clamps were made of conductive metals. I could be easily wrong though.

[Hellfire]

Originally Posted by cheapthrill

Hellfire, I follow your design, but there is something I'd like to know- is the conduit clamp supposed to complete the circuit when it touches the hoop?

Yes, I guess I should have stated that.

Originally Posted by cheapthrill

If so, then that seems odd to me, I wouldn't think that hoops and conduit clamps were made of conductive metals. I could be easily wrong though.

Metal = Conductive

Metal by nature is a conductor unless, it has a non-conductive coating on it. I do not know of a metal that is not conductive.

[cheapthrill]

Originally Posted by Hellfire

Metal = Conductive

Metal by nature is a conductor unless, it has a non-conductive coating on it. I do not know of a metal that is not conductive.

OK, I guess I deserved an answer which would imply that I am a complete idiot. What I should have said is "I wouldn't think that hoops and conduit clamps were made of metals possessing a relatively high conductivity". Not all metal has the same conductivity. Copper, for example, has excellent conductivity... which has a lot to do with why it is used so much in electronics. Another point, some conduit clamps are purposefully made to be non-conductive. I would use a piece of copper instead, I'd swear I have seen similarly shaped copper clamps before.

[Hellfire]

Originally Posted by cheapthrill

OK, I guess I deserved an answer which would imply that I am a complete idiot. What I should have said is "I wouldn't think that hoops and conduit clamps were made of metals possessing a relatively high conductivity". Not all metal has the same conductivity. Copper, for example, has excellent conductivity... which has a lot to do with why it is used so much in electronics. Another point, some conduit clamps are purposefully made to be non-conductive. I would use a piece of copper instead, I'd swear I have seen similarly shaped copper clamps before.

I'm sorry. It was not my intention to imply that you or anybody else is an idiot. There are no dumb questions. That is the way I look at it anyway. Actually, the conductivity is really good on the chrome plated hoops and the steel galvanized clamps. I would use the steel clamps because they will flex back better than copper, but yes, you can get copper pipe clamps just like the one I show in that picture.

This switch idea is based on the cymbal switch that I use. In the cymbal switch I use aluminum. Chrome and zinc (galvanized plating) are much more conductive than aluminum.

[cheapthrill]

Originally Posted by Hellfire

I'm sorry. It was not my intention to imply that you or anybody else is an idiot. There are no dumb questions. That is the way I look at it anyway. Actually, the conductivity is really good on the chrome plated hoops and the steel galvanized clamps. I would use the steel clamps because they will flex back better than copper, but yes, you can get copper pipe clamps just like the one I show in that picture.

This switch idea is based on the cymbal switch that I use. In the cymbal switch I use aluminum. Chrome and zinc (galvanized plating) are much more conductive than aluminum.

No apology needed, HF, I should have stated my concern better in the first place. I can see how a galvanized clamp would work because of the zinc coating, though I didn't realize that chrome was a good conductor. This is some really good info... I might give this a try myself. Nice post!

[Hellfire]

Originally Posted by BeyondStupidity

Attached it an idea of what the layout would look like. Anyone see anyway to simplify it?

I was looking at your concept drawing again last night. I think you will have to use separate piezos for each switch pad. I say this because if you use one piezo for all four, you would have to wire all four of them in parallel and that would cause all four to trigger at the same time. If you make up four individual switch pads with piezo, you can just use TRS "Y" adaptors at each tom input. This is the type of adaptor that you would use to plug in two set of stereo headphones into one stereo headphone jack. This one is from Musicians Friend:


Here's your drawing in .jpg format for people who don't have MSWord: