sound deadening advice

[adam1516]

Hi guys,

I am brand new to this forum. I have recently bought a brand new Roland TD6, which I am delighted with.

However, because I live in an apartment block 3 stories high, I have had problems with sound vibrations. I have my kit up in the loft, and have put boards and planks down on the beams to make a mini stage. To my shock, the folks who live below me have complained about the thudding of the bass drum and hitting the solid rubber pads.

In fact, the person who lives two stories below me can hear the thuds! Is there any way I can completely deaden the vibrations, especially the bass drum? Someone suggested sand bags, but how the hell do I get a level playing platform on top of sand bags?

By the way, the sound doesnt come from any speakers because I wear headphones, it's purely vibration.

Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

[BarT]

Welcome. This is a frequently asked question in relation to apartments, especially for the kick drum. And there have been various solutions, some successful and some not completely successful. Try searching for "platfoam", "riser" or even just "apartment". If it were a serious problem for me, I think I'd try the "tennis balls" approach which usually seems to work: Drum Platform

Bruce

[adam1516]

After reading all of the suggestions regarding sound muffling, I've come to the conclusion this is a major problem, especially for those of us living in apartments. I have gone to EXTRAORDINARY lengths to quiten the vibrations from my kit, including one piece of advice about attaching the bass drum to the rack itself. I have tried all manner of devices, including MDF boarding and plies upon piles of carpet. I have even tried giant bags of compost as a platform, with a board on top, and several layers of carpet on top that!

Guess what?

My neighbours can STILL hear vibrations, although quieter, but still audible. I asked the sales rep when I bought the kit specifically about this problem, but he assured me that it would be totally silent. Well he would, wouldn't he? I think Roland have a duty to inform customers of this nightmare, as I have read about guys spending hundreds of dollars to cure the problem, and quite frankly, I think it stinks.

Also, I think I would have saved up a little more and bought a higher spec kit where all of the drums are mesh heads , not the crap rubber ones which create all of the vibration, and also succeed in jarring your wrists if you play them long enough.

That's enough of a moan for now I think. I'll try the tennis ball solution, though it seems an awful lot of work, but I'm getting desperate now!

[celef]

dampening vibrations is not easy, and i doubt that tennis balls are the solution. look among pro grade acoustical products and noise/vibration control. i guess you want a soft material between your drums and the floor, not a bouncy one. the hard part is to select a material (foam) with correct properties (density).

[hiroshi]

dampening vibrations is not easy, and i doubt that tennis balls are the solution. look among pro grade acoustical products and noise/vibration control. i guess you want a soft material between your drums and the floor, not a bouncy one. the hard part is to select a material (foam) with correct properties (density).

As stated, more mass is NOT the answer. All that'll do is make the floor heavier.

As an experiment, play your bass drum pad/pedal with your hand, manually depressing the beater. Now, lift your bass drum pad/pedal off the floor, while playing it with the other hand.

Notice how the impact noise remains, but you lose the noise transmitted into the floor. If this reduction is significant, then you have to make a small platform to "lift" the pedal/platform off the floor, 'decoupling' it so vibrations aren't transmitted.

Basically, a mini-bass drum platform can be assembled with layers of materials that contain air (like low-density foam, plastic bubble wrap, etc.) and absorb some of the shock. You can even significantly reduce noise transmission through the floor by using a layer or two of a Sorbothane shoe inserts (works well)....

You can use the same approach on the rack, mounting the rack legs underneath mini-platforms.

Word of caution: you don't need to build a massive riser if you don't try to support the weight of a drummer on it. Cut out a circle so the drum throne can sit directly on the floor below, not on the platform...

Chris

[rickschwar]

Here's another suggestion as well. These are only part of the solution however.

http://www.soundproofing.org/infopag...rationpads.htm

These anti-vibration iso pads are used for commercial sound and vibration isolation of machinery. They're made from a high quality elastomeric ribbed neoprene, constructed with alternate rib heights, cross-ribbed, with a cork center for additional sound isolation.

[adam1516]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all of your good advice.

I see what you mean about adding more mass and density to the floor - this won't help anything, as I have learned to my expense. Regarding the platform for the bass drum, it wont make any difference because I've attached it to the frame of the kit - though to be honest it hasn't made a scrap of difference. All the vibrations have been transferred through the legs of the kit instead of straight to the floor. I dont see how making yet another platform for the bass drum will work anyway - it's already on several platforms above the floor that include the kit and that hasn't made any difference.

I also can't see how the contraption with the tennis balls works either. How will those tennis balls stop vibrations passing through the floor?

I've been looking at the auralex platfoam, which most people seem to be very happy with. It is, however, very expensive. It might be my last resort, otherwise I have to consider selling a brand new kit for a huge loss on E-bay!

Anymore suggestions would be most welcome.

[Renegator]

Hi guys,

Anymore suggestions would be most welcome.

Get new neighbors! Only half kidding.

But seriously, they can still hear your drums with piles of carpet and MDF or whatever that was and up in a loft?????

I find it very hard to believe that they can hear your drums at LOUD levels.

Living in apartments is a give and take affair. That is why my number one goal as a young single guy was to get the heck out apartments and into some sort of one family dwelling. And even then, in the city you can hear boom boxes, cars, trucks, radios, TVs, freakin' cats meowling (or whatever that word is ), you name it!

I would try to work out a mutually acceptable schedule.

I would look into the noise ordinances.

I would ask for tolerance.

I would pray for guidance and assistance. (Works for all my toughest problems.)

I would buy a heavy bag and work out with lots of grunts and yells.

I would play the radio loud and see how far the sound travels.

I would ask a friend to play them while I walked around checking how loud the sound is that supposedly carries so far.

I would think that several layers of rigid insulation board (about $10 a pop) topped with some 1/2 inch plywood and some carpet on top of that would be an effective barrier. But I could be wrong!

Good luck,
Rene

[willowriverj]

Here's an easy one, if your trying to kill the vibration of your rack: fill the rack with packing popcorn. It will absolutely kill the vibration. I used it to eliminate my crosstalk problems caused by vibration. Not sure if it would eliminate vibrations through a building, but it's a very cheap idea to try.

Jay

[adam1516]

Guys,

After much frustration and head scratching, I've finally found a superb solution to dampening vibration. It's so simple too.

All I did was buy a couple of UPHOLSTERY CUSHIONS - the same ones you would use for the seats of a comfy sofa - and sandwich them between 2 MDF boards, with the kit placed on top.

AND THAT'S IT!

The foam cushions are pretty thick - probably a foot - but I would recommend that thickness or even thicker if you want.

It has reduced the vibrations by, in my estimate, NINETY PER CENT. Yes - ninety per cent. I even checked with the neighbour below me and she said she couldn't hear a thing. Not even a slight vibration.

So all you guys out who have the same problem - don't waste your money on Auralex platfoam - the 2 cushions cost me £20 - the Auralex costs £200! And don't bother with that crackpot tennis ball solution - I tried it (and cost me time and money) - it makes no difference whatsoever.

There is one very slight downside - the kit isn't super rigid - but it's still easily playable; the weight of the kit is enough to keep it pretty stable.

What a relief!!

I've attached a picture for all to see how simple and effective it is.

[Renegator]

Guys,

All I did was buy a couple of UPHOLSTERY CUSHIONS - the same ones you would use for the seats of a comfy sofa - and sandwich them between 2 MDF boards, with the kit placed on top.

There is one very slight downside - the kit isn't super rigid - but it's still easily playable; the weight of the kit is enough to keep it pretty stable.

Adam1516 - thanks for the update! Nothing like empirical results to add to our knowledge base.

One pointer I might offer...

Your kit is probably less stable because of the small area of MDF board it is sitting on. If you placed two more pieces at right angles to these, or better yet, got a single piece twice the size of these to place on top, you would span the two platforms and create one large platform. I would think your kit would be much more solid that way.

Again, thanks for the update. It is very interesting!

Rene

[celef]

that's the way! but a foot of foam sounds a bit of overkill, with a pro "platfoam" that have been optimized you can get just as good (or even better) results but with smaller dimensions (=better stability), that and the price tag is the difference between pro and diy

[steve_f]

Hi everyone,


I've browsed these forums for a while, and this thread made me want to register and reply.

I live in an apartment, with neighbours below, and am thinking of buying the TD-12 kit soon.
This vibration thing is a real worry, however the cushion idea sounds great.
I'm thinking of placing an mdf board over a double mattress, which sits on the floor. (I already have the mattress)
I think it will kill the vibrations quite a bit.

I'm also worried about the noise from hitting the cymbals and pads. I've often waited patiently for my turn on a demo td-20 in my local drum shop (on a carpeted concrete floor), and been amazed at the noise made when riding on the cymbals and playing rimshots. I may need to soundproof the floor also to kill some of the ambient noise. I'm thinking of something like this:
http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co....quietfloor.htm

any ideas/opinions?

Steve

[celef]

to soundproof a room you need to make it absolutely air tight, any leakage and sound will pass thru. flimsy walls (floors, etc) must be stiffened and mass should be added. this blocks higher frequencies. lower frequencies is much harder to block due to their longer wavelenghts, but fortunately, stick noise from edrums doesn't have this low frequency content. another important thing is to decrease noise level within the room, this can be done with friction absorbers (fiberglas or foam). a simple solution is placing sound absorbing screens around the drum kit, can be made of owens corning 703 and some lumber

[rickschwar]

...a simple solution is placing sound absorbing screens around the drum kit, can be made of owens corning 703 and some lumber

I did this to two walls in my music room this weekend. 2" OC 703/705 insulation makes a huge difference to the sound within a room, but does little as a barrier as the above post explains.

Total cost of doing this is about $150 per wall. Insulation has several benefits over foam.

1. It absorbs more sound at lower frequencies (as low as 100Hz).
2. It's more fire retardent.
3. If you make your own screens, it's less expensive.