Recording level ,SPDIF

[oldie]

I'm using a M-Audio firewire card to record. I have really low level when using SPDIF from TD-20. Direct outs is fine.
Is there any posibility to adjust the SPDIF level on the TD-20
Frode

[Alan @ V Expressions]

Not that I know of... have you checked your MAudio control panel to make sure the S/PDIF is even with everything else? (all the way down, like the I/O's)

What software are you using? The line level the S/PDIF is putting out should be averaging a max of -6db anyway... most people think that's low... but that's correct for recording.

I run mine (S/PDIF) into Sonor and it hits exactly at -6db. (MAudio Delta 1010... should be the same as what you should be getting) This leaves plenty of headroom for engineering, mixing, mastering, etc...

- Alan

[teknail2004]

Hey Oldie,
Amonline's answered well, as he seems to have the same gear as you, And take a special note to what he says about the headroom part....Very very important.

Cheers
Leo

[oldie]

It seems like the recording level is fine, the problem really is the monitoring level. When I add tracks and using monitoring from Cubase the level in the headphones are way to low. It's really hard to play when the volume is to low.

I'm not shure if this is the headphones amp in the M-audio or if I'm screwing things up in cubase SX

Thanks!

Frode

[Alan @ V Expressions]

What you are explaining is normal... just turn the headphones up... the level you run the headphones at will make no difference on how the recording turns out. You need to hear what you are recording. (you may want to do some research on headphone models and their output levels... there is some info on that here in the forum as well)

I would suggest final mixing to actual monitors though.

[teknail2004]

Lower the volume of all the other instruments/tracks while recording the drums...
I do this so I hear the drums right out front...

And if its the other way round..(ie recorded drums/track is to low to play to)...then lower the level of those instruments tracks...the fader pulled back on the recording track has no effect on the volume it's printing....Only the input effects the level...This is how it is on the VS2480.

Cheers
Leo

[oldie]

I have messed some more with the settings and levels in Cubase and the mixer (sw) on my M-Audio card. I had activated an insert bus in the card, and the level on that bus was set low. Correcting this made life a little brighter

An other problem is my headphones, they still are to low. Impedance is 150 Ohms, so I'm considering buying the Sony 7506, they are praised in an other thread here.

Third problem is my understanding of Cubase and M-Audio mixing and monitoring options. I tend to get a little lost in there from time to time..

Thanks for your help

[Daniel]

Hello everyone,

I have a TD20 and a brand new m-audio firewre 4010. I have the same problem. Volume in spdif out is way to low, not a point of view is actually very low. My head phones are one of the best arround SENNHEISER HD25SP. Even with th analog connection I feel that the monitoring level is a little low, I mean that if I want to be sourounded by music and feel even the littlest sound is very difficoult. I can not immagine to buy a 400 dollar audio card and need to keep the phones level always max, but for know I can forget about this as I can't say is very low as spdif. By the way the software I use is logic express.

All the levels of the m-audio control pannel are MAX!! Has anyone find the reaso or a solution?

thank's!!

[Froglegs!]

I use Cubase SX3 and record using SPDIF from my TD20. I'm using a Delta 66 and suffer the same problem. My suggested workaround is to boost the monitor levels during recording in Cubase. This can be done in the mixer view (F3). In the channel strip recording the VDrums, you will see only one knob (top right hand corner of each strip). Wind it up to about 10db and away you go. Hope that helps.

[Daniel]

Thanks for the suggestion but I want to work with logic and would even like not to work around moving knobs or boosting levels when I record drums! I have spent 400$ plus plus plus and I would like things to work properly!

But where do you think the problems comes from...the output level of the TD20 or the input level of the soundcard as I need to understand to wich company I have to write too?

[Alan @ V Expressions]

Daniel, everything is most likely working properly. Today's software DAWs generally do not provide adequate monitoring power, especially if you are using headphones for engineering. Today's software and DAW setup is designed to be a clean recording DAW (usually incoming at -6db/line... leaves headroom for production and mastering) and being amplified in some way to either headphones (usually for engineering only) and monitor speakers that are being powered externally. (you can choose to run it out to another high end SoundBlaster card for amplification) This is the norm. It just sounds like you need to boost your monitoring; which is quite normal. It goes the same for all us guys using Sonar or PT as well.

[Daniel]

Ciao Amoline,

so you are saying that those sound cards like mine (FW410) doesn't have a loud monitoring and that is normal to have various and very different input signals if you use spdif, analogic or midi? Just to explain me properly I have quite low monitoring in general but in spdif case is the signal that is low from the begining... i can see it from the control panel of the FW410, the green levels do not go upper than 1/3rd. I assume that this is not normal otherwise I should by a signal booster for spdif and then a monitor booster for headphones and this doens't sound very clever.

The job of a quite nice sound card isn't it to give you clean and LOUD sound other that different IN/OUT's?

I think I am not getting something?!?!

Legend:

- Apple Power Book 15 (first generation-working fine)
- Logic express
- FM-Audio Fire wire 410
- ROLAND TD20 (direct headphones monitoring is quite loud)
all first class cables
- SENNHEISER HD25SP Headphones
- Creative Inspire T3030 speakers (quite bad but loud, and I mainly use headphones)
- Audiotecnica AT2020 Cardioid Condenser Microphone
- Pick Up for a acoustic guitar (can't remember the brand)

- spdif signal very low in output and consequently low in headphones
- logic get's all the midi signals but if I don't use a analog connection from the master out of the TD20 to the IN of the FW410 I hear nothing, but this is a probleem I will try to understand in a second moment.
- generaly quite low headphones monitoring ( I have all faders and volumes to MAX and even if the sound is clear I don't understand the use of faders if I need to keep them all at MAX)
- The mic with power phantom has a very clean sound and very loud.
- I plugged the jack of the Pick Up for the acoustic guitar and the sound is not low it barely can be heard.

This is quite it. Like I said I thought that all this list was exactly the job of a sound card.

Thank's for your suggestions!

[Alan @ V Expressions]

You are using an S/PDIF cable, not RCA... right? When you bought the cable, it said it was a digital S/PDIF cable, correct?

Just want to make sure of this before we all continue to try to help you.

Midi is something completely seperate... and yes, you will have to have an audio send to hear it. If you want the 'recorded midi' info, you're going to have to make sure you have a midi return (out) to the TD-20. (you can then choose to monitor through the TD-20 or send it back again from the masters to the DAW for monitoring.

Most of us send from the module to the DAW in/during recording, (while monitoring at the module) but then work at the DAW independently after drums are recorded.

[Daniel]

Ciao Amoline,

yes I am sure is a spdif cable, very well made too, nice and metal gold

About the midi actually I am not sure in Logic where to send back the audio to the TD20 module. Like I said I see the logic led's of the In and Out running and getting the signal, I have a clue where to find it but right know I am not near my set.

"Most of us send from the module to the DAW in/during recording, (while monitoring at the module) but then work at the DAW independently after drums are recorded."
I do the same thing, well not indipendently as the sound's will still come from the TD20, but yes I will work on the DAW, is only the monitoring aspect the if I want to hear something I need to go analog with a jack cable thru the master out of TD20 to the master in of the FW410, will check in these day's where to activate the midi out from Logic. For now my main concern is thoe different levels and so low spdif input line!

thanx!

[intini]

Hi, Daniel and Amonline,

I use a Digi002 to record the TD-20 via S/PDIF and usign 2 or 8 analog outputs. I never had problem with signal levels for monitoring. The analog recording levels sometimes even clip. Of course the S/PDIF levels are fixed, but gives an adequate recording level. I use headphones to monitor and I only go 1/2 way, otherwise it would blow my ears, it is VERY loud, louder than the TD-20 monitoring at MAX level. Maybe Digidesign put a very powerfull monitoring amp for the headphones on the Digi002? I never had a problem and I like to hear it really LOUD!
Just as an extra information....
I hope you can solve this without buying an external headphones amp.

Intini